Curse

The Air Revenger · Aug 01, 2009, 11:51 PM // 23:51

sounds like your QQing because you bought all you z-keys and found out theres a better way to do it.

This is in no way a scam but a game of chance that both people must agree too and its not always extortion, mabey i give someone 1 key and i get an everlasting or other rare weapon, an i extorting now?

Jinkies · Aug 01, 2009, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Air Revenger

sounds like your QQing because you bought all you z-keys and found out theres a better way to do it.

This is in no way a scam but a game of chance that both people must agree too and its not always extortion, mabey i give someone 1 key and i get an everlasting or other rare weapon, an i extorting now?

Face it, Zaishen Service people don't do the service because they want to help the client get Everlasting tonics. They do it because it's cheaper for them to use other peoples money to advance in their ranks.

oh and also, your post makes no sence because you put yourself in the position of the client, who is the 1 getting extorted not the 1 extorting.

also, noone has really responded to it being against Ventari Section rules, can we get a mod in here and either,
A: remove the rule
B: remove Z service from ventari

KiyaKoreena · Aug 01, 2009, 11:56 PM // 23:56

You are giving the zkeys a set value when they are worth whatever a person is willing to pay for them. If one person wants the points and one person just wants the drops then the arrangement is quite fair. It's not a scam.

Jinkies · Aug 02, 2009, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiyaKoreena

You are giving the zkeys a set value when they are worth whatever a person is willing to pay for them. If one person wants the points and one person just wants the drops then the arrangement is quite fair. It's not a scam.

the dollar bill is just a piece of paper, a banana is just a piece of fruit. They are only worth what people think they are worth, but remains, for the most part, constant. Z Keys and the drops from the Z Chest do too.

and I have just explained in an above post why it is nowhere close to fair, as a Client = drops, Provider = Points situation. Perhaps I will edit my original post and rework that fact in.

RazmO- · Aug 02, 2009, 12:01 AM // 00:01

I get your point, and I assume everyone else here gets it, but what you are talking about isnt a Scam. Like others have said, both parties knows what they are getting into, they have an agreement about the service that is going to happen, therefore no one is SCAMing, BUT, you are just helping others, and give them a headsup about it, therefore in my opinion you should change the title , and the inside of your post, warnning people about what they are getting into, instead of telling them they are getting scarmed, because thats pretty much what you do.
Thats a nice thing what you just did here, doesnt really help me, but thanks :]

the Puppeteer · Aug 02, 2009, 12:02 AM // 00:02

I love this topic

gg sir, I'm tired of listening to ppl in game complaining of wasting the keys on the service.
Gonna spam the link to every single QQ I hear in game^^

Bug John · Aug 02, 2009, 12:05 AM // 00:05

When you open a chest you get :
- 5 points
- one item

Some people only want the drops, and some people only want the points. What's the problem if both agree to get twice as much of what they want ?

I'll be nice and tell you where your logic fails: everything depends on how much you think the points are worth, and to some people, points are worthless.

Opening the zchest for drops is a gamble, you won't necessarily get your money back, you're totally missing the point of this system.

If people refused to give back the drops after getting them, it would be a scam, as it is now, it's just a gamble. Anyone who thinks the zchest will make him rich takes a (great) risk, but it's not like he's not aware of it.

BlueNovember · Aug 02, 2009, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift3d

I'd feel like one hell of a righteously asinine fool if i wasted that much on a pve emote too, dude.

Heh, if you have suggestions for what to do with in game wealth these days, please do enlighten us.
--

OP: There's no logical flaws in your reasoning. The thing is, some people don't play logically. It's not a scam, some people are just bad at statistics / like to gamble with bad odds.

Quote:

for some people, points are worthless.

Ah, but those people should realise other people value points, and so trade any points at market value for things they do want.

Eduhard · Aug 02, 2009, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Well, the topic title is: "...Scam of GW.", and should be "..Scam of GWGuru." Since maybe can be tagged as "scam" here at the forums for some awesome rule that maybe needs a fix.

That's why I mentioned the QQing, and this service isn't a scam and is not breaking any game rule.

Yet again a QQ thread, "oh man I wasted my money on z-keys and those guys are getting the same at half the price !!1!1!!one!"...

Jinkies · Aug 02, 2009, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bug John

When you open a chest you get :
- 5 points
- one item

Some people only want the drops, and some people only want the points. What's the problem if both agree to get twice as much of what they want ?

I'll be nice and tell you where your logic fails: everything depends on how much you think the points are worth, and for some people, points are worthless.

Opening the zchest for drops is a gamble, you won't necessarily get your money back, you're totally missing the point of this system.

For those to whom the points are worthless to, this doesn't apply. Only the side using the keys care about the points, the others care about getting good drops. What you misunderstand is that people want good, keyword there, good drops. People don't want r13 Poop Axe of Pooping. They want r9 Eternal Blade of Enchanting, because even if they prefer the looks of r13 Poop Axe they can sell e blade for more and buy all the poop axes they want.And it is shown time and time again it is more effective to save for the item you want, then to try to get it from the Z Chest.

Unlike the lottery you just cant win. Even if you get lucky and service 40 keys and get an EL Tonic, what have you won, 20e? At least in the real lottery you can pay 5 bucks and win 34million, or something like that ^.

immortius · Aug 02, 2009, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jinkies

Only the side using the keys care about the points, the others care about getting good drops.

And the service doubles their chance of getting a good drop. For no loss to themself except zaishen points they didn't want.

It's pretty simple, basic economic theory really.

WhiteWasabi · Aug 02, 2009, 12:43 AM // 00:43

The only reason the O.P. is posting is because he sees other people catching up to his Zaishen title.

Zaishen service is not a scam. Both sides agree to what they are going to get before the transaction takes place. One guy gets xtra points the other guy gets an extra drop. When that happens both parties are happy. The person who isn't happy is Teal because he already used a ton of zkeys on the title.... come on admit it Teal...

The poster (Teal) is complaining because he already used zkeys to get half the max title. The original post has nothing to do with a scam. It is someone just complaining...

LoneManWolf · Aug 02, 2009, 12:46 AM // 00:46

funny i thought it was great
gave a guy 5 of my keys he used 5 of his i got a EL tonic
sold said tonic haven't touched the service since
the keys cost me nothing
i won them by messing around in z elite testing some builds lol
not sure why u think it's a scam
it's a gamble
the odds are not in ur favor but u compared this to the lotto... lotto odds are in the millions to win... the z chest more like in the hundreds to win... comparing odds to payout it's about the same
get over it stop whining and stfu

Betrayer of Wind · Aug 02, 2009, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Although it does make sense,ive used those services for my zkey=whatever drops +2,5k.
So i was getting 2,5k back and having the chance of getting a decent item.Although it may be luck or not,i got 1 EL doing that and about 300k from the service guy providing around 100keys.
Good?yes.
lucky?probably.

CronkTheImpaler · Aug 02, 2009, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jinkies

Care to explain my illogical remarks?
Maybe scam is open to interpretation of its meaning, but it is clear extortion and violates the ventari section rules. I know from experience with dealing from the clients that the majority of them are not happy with the result. Many are fooled thinking that with 40 or fewer keys they will get an everlasting tonic and a voltaic or 2.

I think you pretty much explained why this isnt a scam. If someone thinks theyll get an EL tonic or voltaic from 40 tonics then they simply dont know the odds. thats no-ones fault but there own. GW is not obligated to assure certain return on keys or chests or anything else for that matter.

Cronk

Not happy with the results??? who gives a S%*T. Im pissed every time i get an onyx from an elite end chest. WOE IS ME!!!!! grow up already. its a game.

Jinkies · Aug 02, 2009, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteWasabi

The only reason the O.P. is posting is because he sees other people catching up to his Zaishen title.

Zaishen service is not a scam. Both sides agree to what they are going to get before the transaction takes place. One guy gets xtra points the other guy gets an extra drop. When that happens both parties are happy. The person who isn't happy is Teal because he already used a ton of zkeys on the title.... come on admit it Teal...

The poster (Teal) is complaining because he already used zkeys to get half the max title. The original post has nothing to do with a scam. It is someone just complaining...

There is obviously an element of resentment towards people who are catching up because of this service but the fact remains its a scam and the math prooves it. If it was just a 1 guy gets extra points other guys gets extra drops basis, it would be 1 client key for every 3 of the providers.

EDIT: if I really cared that much I would go sell a shiroken or something and go service 2500 keys and max the title :P I really am trying to help people get the most out of their money w/o, in my opinion, cheating.

WhiteWasabi · Aug 02, 2009, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jinkies

If it was just a 1 guy gets extra points other guys gets extra drops basis, it would be 1 client key for every 3 of the providers.

The market dictates the prices. What you feel is fair for a ratio of points to drops is different than what other people believe. Ectos to 1 person are 4k each and to someone else 4.25k each. Some people would rather sell the ectos faster and not waste time getting an extra 250 gold.

The point is there is no scam if both parties walk away happy. I am sure if 1zkey:2drops was such a good deal there would be tons of people lining up to do it thus driving people to offer 1:3 or even more.

There is no scam and calling it a scam does nothing but makes doing the zaishen service harder to do, which is your goal anyway, to preserve your zaishen title.

Jinkies · Aug 02, 2009, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Puppeteer

I love this topic

gg sir, I'm tired of listening to ppl in game complaining of wasting the keys on the service.
Gonna spam the link to every single QQ I hear in game^^

The above pretty much sums up that in the long term people aren't happy with the end result, though I do agree Wasabi, that if it was that great there would be tons of people still lining up to do it. I think there are however far too many. One might argue, that by arguing my point you are just trying to make the zaishen service easier to do which is your goal anyway, to increase your zaishen title. Yes I heard you were doing it, but no that isn't why. it was because I went to Service section and saw the whole page littered with "Da Best Z Service Eva" threads. The value of an item to an individual doesn't matter if it doesnt match the value in everyone elses opinions. Even if you hate the voltaic spear that dropped for you it's still a more effective use of it to sell it for 50e, then use the money to buy items you like more. Rather han to just throw it all away or trade for a piece of junk that you could have had 50 of. If you like crappy unid golds and creme brulee why not just buy them?

Faer · Aug 02, 2009, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Oh no, Joe Shmoe isn't getting as much profit out of a service as he was aiming for when he signed up knowing that the chance of making the profit he wants is very low. CALL THE SCAM POLICE.

I want an Eternal Blade every time I clear UW without Shadow Form nonsense. Stop scamming me ArenaNet.

keli · Aug 02, 2009, 01:24 AM // 01:24

people like to gamble, this is the thing you must understand first

1,the z service dubles their chance to win while they kinda "lose" their progress on a title they don't care about
2,your problem is that in your eyes the 5 zpoints worth 3 drops and your are jealous because the service guys get them for one
3,once again, the ppl who participate in this service are happy with their +1 drop because the points mean nothing to them

easy math and it is not a scam just you fail...

(jamika: olyan buta vagy, mint a tök és amit nem értesz egyből elutasítod...)